Love You to Pieces in Wisconsin

The serpent planned her satanic, drug-fueled date night, and a Green Bay family will never be the same.

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Transcript

Marcy: 0:01

Welcome to Crime Raven. True crimes, real life stories from law enforcement, and issues crime fighters face. This podcast highlights crimes researched by retired detective

0:13

sergeant Mark Rein.,

Marcy: 0:15

using publicly available information, court records, and personal recollections. While we often cannot know exactly what was said or thought during the commission of crimes, narratives are based on our research. Listener discretion is advised. Suspects are innocent until found guilty in a court of law. Lamia was a creature of darkness. This hadn't always been true. Sunlight touched her childhood from time to time, but the grind of living every day in this shitty world had almost crushed her. Lamia responded in the only way she could. She learned. She had witnessed her mother's daily beatdown as alcohol demons stole her away, piece by fucking piece. Life lesson one, the people who should protect you won't. They're too weak. Lesson two, the world is full of monsters, some lurking in the shadows while others hide in plain sight. They are waiting to consume you. Years back, Lamia's mind shattered. Part of her was still the child, weak in the same ways her mother had been weak, broken by those who exploit vulnerability. She hated that part of herself. The girl who cowered and shook as she curled up in a tight ball in her bed, praying that no hand would touch her. But then there was the other. The Lamia that forged her life's lessons into armor, shielding her heart with barbed wire and cold steel. That Lamia spit oaths back at that weak little girl. Warming herself by the heat of the words, revenge, retaliation, retribution, reprisal. For months Lamia had fantasized about her boy. Not the rough one, the young one, the quiet one, the one who when she raised her voice would flinch and then do her bidding. It was so comfortable, so familiar, like an old pair of jeans that slide on and become part of your body. Wrapped around her little finger, since they were kids, she'd strung that boy along for years. She was sworn to another man, but that night, With the dog locked away, the cat would play. In the dream, even though it had been a while, Lamia and her boy followed the ritual. They would set out in search of drugs. Appropriately, they would smoke the bitch, and sundry other delights. then, Lamia would take care of her boy. Grooming was part of the fantasy. Trimming. His Auburn locks both giddy from intimate touch and the smoke and the anticipation. When the time felt right, the boy and Lamia would bid farewell to friends and slip off into the cold, dark night. They would end up at his place. It wasn't perfect. She thought of it as his pit underground, but not private enough. But with all her wanting, Lamia was beyond caring. Once they arrived, they would be unable to shed clothes quickly enough as they descended. There would be frantic kissing and fondling as they collapsed onto the familiar bed. The boy would break their embrace, fumble around, And finally, find the chain. Holding it up, light scattering off the stainless steel rings, he would wear a quizzical expression. Lamia would pull the chain taut between her white knuckled fists. The boy, slipped away in his own fantasy, wouldn't notice the grip, or her face, as he assumed the position. Lammy would mount the boy's naked back as if to ride, slinging the chain overhead to rein the beast in. She would own him. So began the best part of the dream. Instead of the familiar, playful giddy up bitch, Lamia was stronger, more forceful in this fantasy. She pulled and the chain bit the boy's throat. Feeling sudden, intense pressure, his body stiffened in alarm. Lamia wrapped the boy's torso with her bare legs, anticipating an epic struggle. She was not disappointed. The boy bucked, trying to toss, but her hands and legs held fast. She countered his moves, pressing down with her weight. He pulled, she resisted. She felt his chest spasm, trying to suck air. Unable to shut his rider or draw breath. The boy finally collapsed onto the bed. Lamia maintained her grip, but she shifted to watch. The boy's face was a mask of panic, eyes wide, mouth a gaping hole. She felt and heard choked wheezes. She saw blood and frothy foam. The face, initially brilliant red, shifted to blue, then purple. Lamia, transfixed, absorbed every detail of her boy's final minutes. When she released the pressure on the chain, blood surged from his throat. She watched the body shudder, felt the bladder release, heard the final heartbeat. What she witnessed exhilarated and aroused her. Lamia's fantasy was not merely to watch her lover die in her arms. The experience would drive her wild with lust. She would grind her naked body against his. She would play with him, suck him, use toys on him, in him. And as the fantasy grew stale, she would pull from deeper, darker places. She would retrieve knives. Lamia would cut her boy. Tentatively at first, a slash here and there. And then she would focus on the precious parts. Slicing, sawing and storing. Trophies, memorabilia to savor. Following an orgy of passionate butchery, Lamia would Saptive energy would collapse, coil into the bed at the bottom of the pit, and slip into oblivion. Lamia woke slowly. Disorientation under narcotic fog was a familiar sensation. Where was she? It was dark. Light filtered down from narrow panes high on one wall. She stared at the ceiling, allowing her mind to clear, and as it did, reality surged back like a wave crashing onto the beach. Eyes wide, Lamia rolled in the bed, throwing back the blanket, her memory filling in details not seen in the dim light. The boy, her friend, lay beside her, headless. The exhilaration of the night was gone, replaced with fear, amplified by adrenaline. Lamia struggled to control panic. Her immediate reaction was to run, to burst from the basement, and escape into the sunlight. Run home. Now, oriented, she looked across the room to the open stairwell. It was full daylight up there. She focused her hearing. A TV. A murmur of a voice. Creaking board. There were people up there. The basement was completely open. No doors. Lamia collapsed back flat on the bed. Heart crashing against ribs, caught between fight and flight. She instinctively knew that if she simply ran away, her life was over. She struggled to control her breath and relax her body. After a few minutes, calmer, Lamia looked around. She reminded herself that she was a predator. She was in a tight spot, but not trapped. Last night, Lamia lived her fantasy. Now she had to survive it. She took inventory of her surroundings and made a plan. She gathered the knives and started cutting.

Mark: 8:28

2. 30 a. m. on Wednesday, February 23rd, 2022. It was a cold winter night in Green Bay, Wisconsin. The house at 829 Stony Brook Lane is in a quiet neighborhood on the city's west side. The homeowner, Tara Picanich, is asleep next to her boyfriend in the second floor loft, When she hears sounds below. Movement, maybe the screen door banging on the side of the house. Tara figures it's her son, Chad, or it could be the girl. They've been flopping in the basement for the last couple of days. Either way, this early morning wake up isn't Tara's first. Shad hasn't outgrown the party life, so she worries. But at 24, he's an adult and she doesn't want to drive him away. Tara gets up because it's still her house. And Mama Bear is going to check on her kid. As Tara descends the main floor, she hears car noises in the street. Then everything's silent night, not a creature stirring. She walks to the side door, probably the one that woke her up. She looks out the girl's car is gone, but the light's still on in the basement. She pauses at the top of the stairs, directing her hearing downward. In the stillness, she needs to know the answer to the question, Who's in my house? Tara's semi finished basement is not unusual, in that it's a bit cluttered. It's the kind of place where you drop things when you don't want them lying around in the living room, But there's still room for a bed and some furniture Going down there Tara scans the familiar mess and she sees no one she nearly trips over a black five gallon bucket at the base of the stairs. There's a towel covering whatever's inside. She's a little annoyed, assuming they've been using the bucket as a toilet again to avoid having to come upstairs. She pulls the towel back. Steve Hendricks is Tara's boyfriend. He barely registered her slipping out of bed. Then he hears her yelling. What is she saying? Call 9 1 1? Why? The words he hears coming up the stairs seem nonsensical. So bizarre. He can't just call the cops and repeat whatever the hell she's saying. He has to look. But even then, standing over the bucket, still foggy from sleep, he doesn't know what the fuck he's looking at. The 9 1 1 operator can hear the uncertainty in Steve's voice. The dispatcher says, okay, tell me what's happening there. I have no clue what's happening here. My girl swears she's found the severed head of her son in the basement. In a bucket. The dispatcher. Did you go down there? I went down there and I can't tell what the fuck is. Pardon my language, I'm a little freaked out. Steve hands the phone to Tara, who confirmed in the emotionless tone of someone deep in shock that when she pulled back the towel from the bucket, She was looking at her son's disembodied head.. The first officers to arrive were highly skeptical. Police officers working night shifts see humanity at its worst. Fights, shootings, drunks, car crashes. But a severed head seemed a little far out. They were in Wisconsin, the Cheese State. This wasn't Syria. so when the pale but normal looking woman in her nightclothes directed them to the stairwell, down they went. The basement looked like thousands of others. The walls were clean. It wasn't a dungeon dripping with gore. But there was a bucket. The officers took turns standing over, peering down in disbelief. And they confirmed with each other. There was a head in there. They could see wavy matted brown hair, the side of a pale face, blood coat at the bottom of the bucket. Yeah, this was real. It took a moment to break the spell. This was a crime scene. considerations flooded back in. They called for help, cleared the rest of the basement, finding no one. It takes time for the discovery of a body to transition into a full blown homicide investigation. In this case, additional patrol officers responded, the entire house and backyard had to be cleared and locked down. The victim's mother and her boyfriend were taken away for interviews. One by one, crime scene and detectives would arrive. They gathered on the periphery like carrion birds as they assessed their job in the frigid morning air. One of the first tasks was to clarify the situation. The witnesses gave separate statements that were simple and consistent. Shad Thurian was Picanich's 24 year old son. Most of the time he lived at his father's home, but would sometimes come to visit her, do laundry, shower, stay overnight in the basement. For two days prior to the police call, Shad had been staying in the basement with a not too serious girlfriend named Taylor. Tara and her boyfriend had just seen Taylor briefly, but they knew she was down there the gold minivan she was driving had been parked out in front the entire time. When Tara described that morning sequence of events to detectives, she noted that the gold minivan was gone before she went down into the basement. She mentioned that she was irritated that they were using a bucket instead of a bathroom. And when asked about that, she said that they had an operating shower, a stall in the bathroom, but no toilet. Both Tara and her boyfriend said that things seemed normal. There was no indication there was anything wrong before the discovery. Tara didn't know much about Taylor. Just that she and her son had been friends through high school. She was seemingly another free spirit who had not grown the party phase. So these witness interviews gave detectives the basis from which to start their investigation. Taylor was an obvious person of interest and it didn't take long to come up with her full name. Tara confirmed from a photo that the person they were looking for is named Taylor Shabiznis, who lived in the apartment on Green Bay's east side. This background information allowed detectives to complete affidavits for search warrants, and with those in hand, the scene work could begin. After search warrants, one of the investigative priorities was to locate and interview Taylorshire Business. A plainclothes officer in an unmarked vehicle was sent to get eyes on the apartment on Eastman Avenue. Once there, he spotted the gold Chrysler minivan in the parking lot. It was owned by Shibusiness's roommate, Scott Tomes. The officer walked past the unoccupied car. He He noted large boxes in the back seat, but nothing of immediate concern. Later that cold morning, before the winter sun had risen, He Uniformed police approached the apartment. They caught Taylor off guard just by luck intercepting her as she was walking out of the building. She's a medium sized woman with pale skin and long dark hair. She seemed stunned as several officers surrounded her. They gave her commands and she complied. the officer who stepped forward to cuff Taylor noticed that her hands were covered with dried blood. Looking around, they realized there were faint bloody footprints in the snow leading from the minivan into the apartment. Scene Processing always starts with overall photographs, which documents the items in their original location before any searching is done. Then there's the investigator walkthrough, a survey that informs decisions on how best to handle the task. Cheese State. This wasn't Syria. So when the pale but, so when the pale but normal looking woman in her nightclothes directed them to the stairwell, down they went. The basement looked like thousands of others. The walls were clean. It wasn't a dungeon dripping with gore. But there was a bucket. The officers took, the officers took turns standing over, peering down in disbelief. And they confirmed with each other. There was a head in there. They could see wavy matted brown hair, the side of a pale face, blood coat at the bottom of the bucket. Yeah, this was real. It took a moment to break the spell. This was a crime scene. Tactical considerations flooded back in. They called for help, cleared the rest of the basement, finding no one. It takes time for the discovery of a body to transition into a full blown homicide investigation. In this case, additional patrol officers responded, the entire house and backyard had to be cleared, the entire house and backyard had to be cleared and locked down. The victim's mother and her boyfriend were taken away for interviews. One by one, crime scene and detectives people would arrive. They gathered on the periphery like carrion birds as they assessed their job in the frigid morning air. Wow, ten o'clock, Ethan just made it. One of the first tasks was to clarify the situation. The witnesses gave separate statements that were simple and consistent. Shad Thurian was Picanich's 24 year old son. Most of the time he lived at his father's home, but would sometimes come to visit her, do laundry, shower, stay overnight in the basement. For two days prior to the police call, Shad had been staying in the basement with a not too serious girlfriend named Taylor. Shad Tara and her boyfriend had just seen Taylor briefly, but they knew she was down there, uh, her gold minivan or the gold minivan she was driving had been parked out in front the entire time. When Tara described that morning sequence of events to detectives, she noted that it was the gold, the gold minivan was gone before she went down into the basement. She mentioned that she was irritated that they were using the bucket as a, as a She mentioned that she was irritated that they were using a bucket instead of a bathroom. And when asked about that, she said that they had an operating shower, a stall in the bathroom, but no toilet. Both Tara and her boyfriend said that she had seemed normal. Both Tara and her boyfriend said that things seemed normal. Uh, there was no indication there was anything wrong before the discovery. Um, Tara didn't, Tara didn't know much about Taylor. Just as, just that Tara didn't know much about Taylor. Just that she and her son had been friends through high school. She was seemingly another free, she, she was seemingly another free spirit who had not grown the party phase. So these witness interviews gave detectives the basis from which the basis from which to start their investigation. Taylor was an obvious person of interest and it didn't take long to come up with her full name. T Tera. Tara confirmed from a photo that the person they were looking for is named Taylor Shabiznis, who lived in the apartment on Green Bay's east side. Her background information, the background information that witnesses provided, provided all of this background information, all this background information, uh, allowed the detectives to complete affidavits and search warrants, uh, so that the scene. All this background information allowed detectives to complete affidavits for search warrants, and with those in hand, the scene work could begin. After search warrants, one of the investigative priorities was to locate and interview Taylorshire Business. A plainclothes officer in an unmarked car was sent to get eyes on the apartment on Eastman Avenue. A plainclothes officer in an unmarked vehicle was sent to get eyes on the apartment on Eastman Avenue. Once there, he spotted the gold Chrysler minivan in the parking lot owned by Shibusiness's Once there, he spotted the gold Chrysler minivan in the parking lot. It was owned by Shibusiness's roommate, Scott Tomes. The officer walked past the unoccupied car. He noted large boxes He noted large boxes in the back seat, but nothing of immediate concern. Later that cold morning, before the winter sun had risen, He Uniformed police approached the apartment. They caught Taylor off guard just by luck intercepting her as she was walking out of the building. She's a medium sized woman with pale skin and long dark hair. She seemed stunned as several officers surrounded her. They gave her commands and he complied. They gave her commands and she complied. The officer who stepped forward, the officer who stepped forward to cuff Taylor noticed that her hands were covered with dried blood. Looking around, they realized there were faint bloody footprints in the snow leading from the minivan into the apartment. Back at the crime scene, a choreographed dance was beginning. Detectives and scene techs are the norm, but for this one, the police were assisted by a forensic doctor and a state medical legal investigator. Processing always starts with overall photographs, the documentation, and their original location. The documentation of items in their relo The document Processing Scene processing Processing always starts with overall photographs, which documents the items in their original location before any searching is complete, before any searching is done. Then there's the investigator walkthrough, a survey that informs decisions on how best to handle the task. Then the hard part begins. It's like peeling an onion. Discrete areas are meticulously searched, combed for evidence, with every new find photographed in place, and items of interest documented and packaged. Initially, all the investigators had was a head in a bucket, but as they started moving things around, the room told them the gruesome story. It turned out the head was not the only thing in the bucket., it also contained an entire severed scrotum and two small knives. The blankets on the bed concealed a blood soaked mattress. A teal plastic coat on the floor near the bed contained the torso. Flayed and eviscerated, loose intestines coiled around the bloody mass. There were more body parts scattered around the basement. Some were in a pink Under Armour backpack. some wrapped in plastic shopping bags and stuffed into a Jimmy Choo duffel. Which also held bloody Lysol wipes. A serrated flesh encrusted bread knife. And two smaller knives that were twisted and broken. all the knives matched a set in the upstairs kitchen. As the body parts were examined, it became obvious that the dismemberment had been crudely done. The joints were hacked, the flesh jaggedly sliced. Along with concealment, there had been an attempt to clean up the room. Used cleaning products, Clorox wipes, blood stained towels had been used and hurriedly stashed along with the body parts. The shower stall had been rinsed and squeegee, but there were telltale stains in the grout and around the drain. Crime scene text theorized that most of the body fluids were initially contained by the large plastic tote, which was then drained directly into the shower. That was why there wasn't blood everywhere. All around the room, interspersed with the evidence of homicide, lay signs of low end drug use. a broken glass pipe, a butane torch, a green baggie with meth residue. Late in the process, as the scene operation was wrapping up, the investigators took inventory of the recovered body. They discovered some of the parts were missing. Early in the process, the scene prognosticators formed a working theory that the killer had been trying to avoid detection by cleaning up and attempting to remove the body from the house piece by piece. The assumption was that the plan had been interrupted and abandoned when Tara Picanich began stirring two floors above. That theory and the fact that significant body parts were missing made searching the Chrysler minivan a priority. The vehicle had been impounded to the police evidence lot. Inside investigators found parts of Shad Therian's right and left legs packed into a cardboard box. Like the other pieces, they've been hacked up, not cleanly cut. Inexplicably, the right femur had been completely defleshed. By the time she was picked up, the detectives who were tasked with interviewing Taylor's show business had done some homework. She was a drug user with a criminal record, including a recent conviction for eluding and resisting arrest. In fact, she was supposed to be under ankle monitor in home confinement. But she had cut that off. She would eventually have been sent back to prison, but that hadn't happened yet. For that morning's arrest, Shabesnes had answered the patrol officers questions appropriately. They thought she was acting normally, given the circumstances. Seated in the small windowless interview room, Shabesnes seemed calm. The detectives stepped in, introduced themselves, they exchanged pleasantries. The chitchat moved into the Miranda warning, and she agreed to talk to them. They started easy with background and timeline. Shabizness, who is 25, had known Shad since middle school, and they'd been boyfriend girlfriend for two years during high school. Since graduation in 2016, they had an ongoing friends with benefits type sexual relationship. Two days prior, around 9. 30 p. m. on Friday, February 21st, Shabusiness borrowed her friend Scott's minivan to pick up Shad and another friend, A. J. The group then found a dealer and bought a hundred bucks in meth. After that, they went to Scott's apartment, where all four of them smoked marijuana, meth, and injected trazodone. Later in the evening, Shabizness cut Shad's hair, and she and Shad parted ways with their friends in search of crack. None of the contacts had any Coke to sell, so the pair drove over to Shads mom's house. The story this far had taken a while to get outta she business. She had been vague and evasive, clearly not eager to get down to details. So in the interview, it took a more direct route, telling her they'd found Shad's head in the basement. She replied, that's fucked up. After that, to everyone's surprise, she became more focused, the detectives asked questions, and Taylor Chabisnes answered. She said, it had just been her and Chad in the basement. When they arrived, the mom's boyfriend answered the door, let them in this was two days prior. It had just been her and Shad in the basement, they hadn't gone anywhere since. Downstairs, she and Shad, quote, smoked the bitch. Meaning crystal meth. Shad got out a couple of metal choke chains, the kind commonly used for large dogs. Shebizness explained that they played around with choking during sex in the past, so that's part of their foreplay. She had gotten up on Shad's back, riding him with the chain around his neck. She said, I was riding him like a donkey. She started pulling the chain harder, telling the detectives, I just didn't stop, I don't know why. Unable to breathe, Shad began struggling, collapsing on the floor with Shabizness on top of him. She described the changes Shad went through as he died over the next several minutes. Shabizness didn't stop. She began playing with Shad's body. She described cuddling him, grinding him, sucking him, stroking him. She used a sex toy on him. Then she had an idea. It was the middle of the night. She crept upstairs and chose an assortment of knives from the kitchen. Back down continue to have sex with Shad's body, but now it involved the knives. One of the detectives broke in asking clarifying questions about when the sex acts had ended and the mutilation began. She said, quote, I was sucking and cutting. She business decided that she wanted to keep parts of Shad's body. She found the bucket. She was worried about making a huge mess, so she positioned the body over the bed with the head hanging off, sliding the storage tote below, begin hacking through the neck. By the time the head and his scrotum lay in the bucket, the effects of meth and adrenaline were wearing off. Completely exhausted, she passed out on the bed. Shebizna said she woke hours later, next to Shad's headless body. She could see the glow of daylight from the windows above, could hear people moving around upstairs. She described the feeling as a living nightmare. The basement was open, there were no doors, and fearing discovery at any minute, she started taking apart the body piece by piece. She wrapped some of the flesh in grocery bags, and she complained that it took forever. So long, in fact, that she nodded off several times during the process. Her plan was to pack everything out in containers during the second night cleaning enough to avoid immediate discovery. To this end she business, drained the bodily fluids into the tote, which were then poured down the shower drain. parts went into the backpack and the duffles. The torso and guts went into the tote. She used bleach wipes and towels to mop up what she could. Shebusiness described that by the second night she was feeling paranoid, but lazy. By early morning, she had only moved a couple of things into the van. When she heard movement upstairs, so she fled, bemoaning the loss of her favorite parts, saying at one point, I forgot the head. I wanted the head. And later, I like the head, I can't believe I left it there. And she remembered that she had put it in a black bucket with a blanket on top right by the stairs so she wouldn't forget it. During Shibusiness story, the detectives interjected to direct and clarify part of her statement. She confirmed that the only tools she used for dismember were knives taken from the kitchen. She complained about having trouble with the small knives, but she said the serrated bread knife worked great. Adding that. The detectives would've fun trying to find all the organs when she business was asked why she did it, her response was, you ever love something so much that you kill it? She didn't want shad to be dead, but admitted that she never tried to get him help after he stopped breathing. During the interview. The detectives at the police station were in communication with their team members at the scene. Where the process was well underway based on ship businesses revelations they seized two long silver choke chains and a flesh colored dildo. Shabesnes interviews called for a look into her past. Here's what investigators found. Her name growing up was Taylor Denise Coronado. She lived with her father, brother, and mother, Marla, who died in 2009 from cirrhosis of the liver, a complication of chronic alcohol abuse. The death was unexpected. Marla, the mom, just didn't wake up one morning. Shabesnes, who was 11 years old and in the 7th grade at the time, became unstable and attempted suicide. All these problems contributed to issues at school. So then the single father shipped business off to Texas for a year to live with their grandparents she continued to have mental health issues in the years that followed. And while undergoing treatment she was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and Bipolar. In early 2020, Shibiznis had a baby boy and married the father, Warren Shabow. She changed her legal name from Coronado to Shibiznis, a name she prefers to Shabow. The following years were difficult. Warren Shabow was arrested and went to federal prison for distribution of methamphetamine. Shibiznis brother was killed in a motorcycle accident and her father, Arturo Coronado, put in prison for raping a 13 year old family member. So for charges, Shibiznis was charged with first degree intentional homicide, mutilation of a corpse, third degree sexual assault. She was held at Brown County

32:49

Jail with a 2 million dollars cash bail.

Mark: 32:52

The facts of the case were sensational, but largely held only local attention. The quiet lasted until during an early court hearing, Shabiza suddenly attacked her defense counsel. Even in handcuffs, she was able to elbow the man's head. A bailiff jumped on her, pinning her to the ground, but the ensuing wrestling match lasted several minutes. The dramatic video, plus details of the murder were enough to draw national attention. After that assault, the County Sheriff increased security. He added deputies and required Chabis's to be shackled and leg irons during court appearances. Preparing for trial, Sher Business attorney filed pro forma motions to exclude evidence seized during searches of her phone, the van, the apartment. These requests were denied by the court, as was a change of venue request based on the high level of publicity the case was garnering. There was one successful motion to suppress. A search of Shabia's cell phone revealed she had a search history and information on satanism. The jury would not be allowed to see that information. One of the interesting pretrial challenges from the defense was a request to dismiss a third degree sexual assault charge. The defense asserted that up until Chad's death, the sex had been consensual. After the death, a body is no longer a person, so sexual assault should not apply. The judge shot this motion down agreeing with the prosecution that the victim did not give consent to be murdered during sex and a dead body is unable to give consent. The obvious defense challenge to this case was competency. This came in two parts. The first was she a business too high during and after the murder, was she too high to understand that she was killing Shad Therian or was she too high to understand that it was wrong? The other thing is, was she too high to waiver Miranda rights and give a voluntary statement? The second thing was more complicated. Was she a business insane? Was she mentally competent? On the drug impairment question, the court ruled that she business was coherent enough to waive the Miranda warning and give a statement. The interview that was filmed supported this finding, as did the testimony of the interviewing detectives, who said she did not appear to be high and clearly answered appropriately most of their questions. Additionally, on March 3rd, while in jail, Shibisnus called a friend, and on that facility's recorded line, the friend asked her if she made the mistake of talking to the police because she was high, and Shibisnus denied being under the influence of drugs while doing the interview. As far as the mental competency question each side hired its own psychologist. Shabiznis underwent multiple evaluations. In the end, the defense asserted that she was not competent in citing the very nature of the crime, her past diagnosis of psychological issues, and some of her inappropriate recent behavior, like assaulting her attorney in court. The psychologist for the state's opinion was that Shabiznis was fit to stand trial. She acknowledges that Shabazzus had past depression and suicidal ideation, but neither were indicative of severe mental illness. The doctor listed examples of how, quote, she has the ability to control herself when it's in her interest and referred to this as volitional conduct. The doctor said that it was inconsistent with patients experiencing true psychosis. Dismissed Chabisnes complaints of amnesia and hallucinations based on the defendant's own statements, which are inconsistent and often contradictory. In summary, the prosecution's psychologist found that Chabisnes was feigning symptoms. Her actions and descriptions were consistent on how Chabisnes felt someone with mental health illness might act. which is very different than what it actually looks like in reality. So the judge hearing these two sides, found her competent to stand trial. At the trial, the prosecution brought an Avalanche of witnesses. They put on AJ who corroborated your business account of the dope run they took and what happened at his apartment. She gave him a haircut. AJ said he didn't notice anything unusual about what your business or shad theory and did that night and didn't even know about the murder until almost a week later, the prosecution put on a bunch of patrol officers, detectives, scene and evidence technicians who brought into court and submitted a mountain of evidence. There were the confession interviews. There were the scene photos, which are gruesome, and other physical evidence. Some of the evidence was surprising. In a search of her business cell phone, they found that she was enamored with the serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer. Some of the testimony is difficult to hear. The medical examiner gave a detailed analysis of the autopsy. Death was caused by manual strangulation, by ligature, consistent with the dog choke chain found on the scene. The head, even after death, had indications of asphyxia, petechial hemorrhages, blood still pooled in parts of the face, causing the purple tint. He said that the strangulation was forceful, with bruising throughout the musculature of the neck. The doctor also described haphazard cutting of the body start and stop type wounds of the dismemberment and evisceration. All the cuts were non he erratic, indicating they were postmortem. Most of the cuts were done using the serrated bread knife. He also said, The skin and muscles of the back were flayed off the torso, exposing the ribcage. In the summary statement, the doctor said, quote, We have decapitation, we have dismemberment, we have transection of the torso. Subsequently, internally, the body had been eviscerated. In other words, we have entered inside the body through various cuts through the abdomen and between the ribs where the victim's organs have been removed. One by one, the defense didn't have the prosecution's mountain of evidence, the claim of mental incompetence had been denied. So defense based their phase of the trial. on uncertainty and emotional appeal. No one saw what happened in the basement, so no one really knows. Nobody ever actually saw Shabizness driving the minivan after the murder. Maybe one of the friends, AJ or Scott, the roommate, knows something. There was no open accusation there, but the defense attorney told the jury it's, just something to take into account. Could this have been a simple accident? Maybe the actual death was unintentional. Shibizna's father, Arturo Coronado, is currently serving a 12 year sentence for sexual assault of a child. He came to the trial wearing his orange jumpsuit, handcuffed and shackled. He testified that Shibizna's mental state had been fragile ever since the deaths of her mother and brother. She'd been briefly hospitalized for bad postpartum depression. Mainly, Coronado blamed the husband, Warren, and his drugs for exacerbating his daughter's problems. Warren Chabot had no part in the trial, but released statements of support from prison. Quote, I know what she's being accused of is not who she is. Not only has her addiction played a big role, but so does her mental background, as well as postpartum depression. I just want my wife to get help, professional help, she deserves. I just hope one day my wife will make it home because she doesn't deserve to be locked up forever. The jury felt otherwise. They convicted Taylor she business of all charges after deliberating for less than an hour. They also found that she was not mentally ill and knew that killing Shad Thurian was wrong. At the sentencing hearing, two members of Shad Thurian's family spoke. The Kelly Therian, Shad's uncle, directed his scorn at Shabazzus, saying it was, quote, the most cowardly thing you could do, take advantage of Shad's friendship to kill him. I will pray that you meet the same fate as your idealistic Jeffrey Dahmer. Michael Therian, Shad's father, said to her, Taylor, I forgive you for what you did to my son. You made a bad choice. Shad was a wonderful child, too. I believe everyone makes bad choices, maybe not to this scale, but it does no good to hate you. The defense attorney spoke on Shabazz's behalf saying she's not a monster to make the plea that at the age 25 rehabilitation should be the ultimate goal. Before passing the sentence, the judge asked Shabazz if she wanted to say anything. She replied, no, there isn't. Brown County Circuit Judge Thomas Walsh said of the crime, the offense in this case can't be overstated. You seem to run out of superlatives. Where the victim's remains are cut up, these actions are foreign. They shock the community. There aren't really words for it. He sentenced your business to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Marcy: 41:39

Let's talk about the victim in this case. You mentioned that this was a particularly hard case to write.

Mark: 41:45

Yeah, so my purpose in the first part of these. is write a fictional representation based on the evidence that gets as close as possible to the reality of the crime. Now, this approach can seem gratuitous at times, and I try and avoid that, but this one was particularly horrific. It was the definition of gratuitous.

Marcy: 42:05

You called the victim a kid, even though he's 24.

Mark: 42:09

Yeah, he was a kid in many respects. Like a lot of young people, he hadn't worked his way to a full adulthood. He's still partying with drug abuse. He's flopping at friends houses and with parents. It's not that unusual a story. Most people who start off like this later, find their adult selves. Get into their real lives So I feel for him. I feel for the family that loved him. He had a mother, he had a dad, a sister, an extended family. He worked on and off for his grandfather's business. For them, particularly his mother, this was an absolute nightmare. There are many people who are young who go through the, sex, drugs, and rock and roll phase. Then they get their shit together and, move on to a more productive phase of life.

Marcy: 42:51

Brains aren't fully developed until about 25 years old. And the last thing that develops is the part of the brain that helps people understand cause and effect and have good judgment. I do want to be careful not to normalize drug use. Plenty of people avoid this phase. You did.

Mark: 43:08

Yeah, I was never into drugs. But my time in the Marines is a little alcohol soaked and the same with college. But I was never in a situation where I had the freedom to just let it all go. But if I hadn't kept myself on a path, if I hadn't made commitments hung around the town where I had graduated high school, with nothing to do, anything's possible. Yeah, I think we all know people, brothers, sisters, friends, who have been at one point, the wild child. When you're young, you feel immortal. Maybe you don't think about the risky behavior catching up to you. But the fact is that people in every age group, they're permanently lost to drugs. More fentanyl deaths. You can never recover if you die. But, this victim in this case should have been allowed to live and he ran into a monster.

Marcy: 43:52

As far as monsters go, a woman killing and dismembering a man seems very unusual.

Mark: 43:59

Yeah, this is why I picked this case. Men doing this kind of thing, although obviously very rare it's much more common than female. This case came to my attention when I was watching the news and the media report that a woman had attacked her defense attorney which isn't unusual. But then I heard the lady cut up her boyfriend and left his parts all over the house.

Marcy: 44:19

And you said to yourself, wait, I have to know more.

Mark: 44:22

Yeah, that's the investigator in me. I'm always asking why, particularly in very unusual circumstances. In this, I had to know the motive. The media blamed it on meth. I worked in narcotics. Dismemberment is not a common drug thing.

Marcy: 44:36

is a dump a body kind of thing.

Mark: 44:38

Yeah. And, so yes, you could have dismemberment to dump a body. And I guess it has been involved in narcotics cases, homicides or even maybe even overdoses. But this offender, in this news story it's reporting as reportedly his girlfriend. And that's an unusual thing. I had to know more. We're talking about this case because it turned out to be interesting. Yeah.

Marcy: 44:59

Why did you name her Lamia?

Mark: 45:05

Okay so anyone listening may wonder how I choose names for the narratives. Part of it was, I didn't want to say the name Shibbusiness over and over again. In general, I like to find a moniker that fits other than the common name. You may have heard the idiom, there's nothing new under the sun.

Marcy: 45:24

Is that Shakespeare?

Mark: 45:25

It does sound like him, but it's actually biblical. Basically that phrase, as I'm relating it to this criminal behavior, references fact that people are generally motivated for a relatively small list of reasons.

Marcy: 45:37

Like greed.

Mark: 45:38

Greed is, I think, the number one motive. But also anger, jealousy, revenge. There are several. So I write these narratives as a fictionalized version of the crime based on real evidence. I focus on motivation and try to find a historical representative for the nickname, because there's nothing new under the sun.

Marcy: 45:57

So where does Lamia actually come from?

Mark: 45:59

Lamia is a Greek goddess, part woman, part snake. She eats babies. She seduces men leading there to their destruction. Lamia, like our villain here, is a product of human influence. Nurture more than nature.

Marcy: 46:14

Let's talk about the scene.

Mark: 46:16

Okay. Imagine being the mother in this case. It's almost beyond comprehension.

Marcy: 46:21

Yeah, finding a loved one that's collapsed in the living room or something is shocking, but it's immediately understandable.

Mark: 46:28

But this two in the morning, it's a nightmare.

Marcy: 46:31

The 911 call is amazing. The callers cannot believe what's happening. And the dispatcher is totally trying to figure it out.

Mark: 46:38

When I was a patrol officer, I worked night shift for several years. I never went ahead in a bucket. But I saw many other shocking things. shift is its own animal. Things happen that seem divorced from the rest of the civilized world.

Marcy: 46:53

When officers are sent to a call that's going to turn out to be a big incident, do you usually have a sense of that ahead of time?

Mark: 47:00

Sometimes. dispatch with lots of detail, maybe multiple callers saying something like there's been a shooting. You pretty much know then it's going to be a major incident. occasionally you get there and it's nothing. The person who's breaking into the house in the middle of the night turns out to be the homeowner. Those loud bangs weren't gunshots. The guy running from the scene in the middle of the night was actually delivering the newspaper. But sometimes you get to a scene, and someone's shot, and maybe the shooting's not over yet.

Marcy: 47:29

You go into calls with an open mind, then.

Mark: 47:32

Yeah, or you try to. But a head in the bucket call? Every cop is going to be skeptical.

Marcy: 47:38

And the police officers on this call could not believe what they were seeing.

Mark: 47:43

Yeah, the body cam I watched took me back to patrol days. One officer said, looking down, Dude, is that real? And the officer, too, says, That's real, dog.

Marcy: 47:56

Then the big response starts. Go through the stages of a major crime scene call up.

Mark: 48:02

So as far as what I found, Green Bay did it just like my department would have in a lot of departments. Initially, additional patrol officers would be called in to clear and lock down the scene. Witnesses are taken to the station for interview if they'll go. That also gets them out of the way, out of the scene. Crime scene detectives in the scene team units are activated and some respond to the scene, depending on the call, some maybe go to the hospital, maybe some go to the station. It all depends on the layout the how everything's gone down and what's happening.

Marcy: 48:37

You have experience getting those middle of the night calls.

Mark: 48:41

Yeah, as a case detective, was called out by the unit supervisor and later as a sergeant I did the calling I'd triage cases over the phone and send out, all of or part of my team based on how big the call was. Sometimes we'd handle the crime scene within the unit if it wasn't all that complicated. Sometimes part or all the crime scene team would be requested to come out.

Marcy: 49:01

Investigators got a search warrant for the house, even though the owner was totally cooperative. Why go through all that effort?

Mark: 49:08

Starting out an investigation, you don't know everything. You may not know who the suspect is or if they might have legal reason to object to any search you're doing. So to avoid the court challenge you obtain that search warrant. Still like to have consent, but the warrant is a CYA thing. Conversely, in a case, if you, if it's a serious case and you show up and there's somebody that could consent and they refuse to do so, that's potentially a red flag worth investigating. Why is that happening?

Marcy: 49:35

Talk a little bit about why, when experts get involved in a case. This one had a medical legal expert, a forensic doctor, the chief of operations with the state lab. How common is it to have all those guys?

Mark: 49:49

It's important to recognize that in these units, the experienced detectives are experts. Most of these cases they encounter are well within their ability to handle that. Even in this one, I would hazard to say that the detectives and a rep from the ME's office could have done the job adequately without any additional scene experts.

Marcy: 50:07

There would have been an autopsy by a pathologist, even if none of the experts had actually responded to the scene.

Mark: 50:13

Yeah, that's correct. And that's why I'm saying this could have been handled just by them, but in special, unusual, interesting cases, you know, the kind of cases you write books on experts will leave their, the comfort of their offices and venture out into the field. At my department, all of the major crime units had resources they could and would contact for these unusual or problematic cases where we had have questions answered. Like in sexual assault, I work closely with the supervisor of our district attorney and special assaults unit. We had nurse examiners who worked with all the victims and we had access to medical doctors who could advise and testify in complicated cases. And homicide and other units had the same kind of, team effort.

Marcy: 50:54

An officer was sent to watch the Eastman Avenue apartment, Shibusiness place. Why not just go in and pick her up right away?

Mark: 51:03

So in in a case like this, beginning with a 911 call, you're starting from zero. It takes time to gain enough knowledge to proceed intelligently the patrol officers arrived at the scene and probably got, the basic story but maybe not enough information to get the full search warrant affidavit and to get that, To flesh everything out so that you can go forward intelligently, it takes time. So it's common for someone to go in, like in this case, you got somebody in plainclothes in an unmarked car, to go in and scout and watch a location. I supervise an investigative support unit and we would do this. Like I said, you go in, you just park your car and observe, see what you can see. Maybe you can see something important to the case and confirm, maybe you confirm the person you're looking for is there. And you're not going to tip your hand by using a marked unit or an obvious detective card. I love doing that work and my detectives and I were often able to find targets, get information without spooking the quarry.

Marcy: 52:05

Let's talk about the effects of poly drug use. Do you think that was partially responsible for this crime?

Mark: 52:12

It sounds like they were doing crazy drug combos here. Stimulants, depressants. I'd expect erratic behavior. But lots and lots of people do that and never kill anybody, much less what happened in this case. I think, based on what I've seen, the role of drugs here is the standard thing. They lessen inhibition.

Marcy: 52:30

Like with alcohol and the term liquid courage.

Mark: 52:33

Yeah, it's the same thing with other drugs too. To, to a lesser or greater extent. I firmly believe that's the role drugs played here.

Marcy: 52:40

I think mental health had to play a part too, even though it wasn't enough to have her found incompetent to stand trial.

Mark: 52:48

Yeah, for sure. There are red flags all over her life. Look at the crime. You think she did what she did spur of the moment? No, this was her fantasy put in motion, which is why I wrote that. Domination, subjugation, mutilation. She's interested in Jeffrey Dahmer who killed and mutilated for sexual gratification and kept parts of his victim. The question is, how did Shabiznis get there? Look at her life. Mom killed herself with alcohol. She lived with her dad who would later go to prison for raping a girl about the same age Shabiznis was when her mother died.

Marcy: 53:22

Do you think she was victimized?

Mark: 53:24

Yeah, I'm very suspicious. She was neglected. And sexual abuse by someone seems very likely. This crime speaks of pent up rage, a desire for retribution.

Marcy: 53:37

What's your opinion of how the investigation was conducted on the whole?

Mark: 53:41

Yeah, I think they did a good job. It was complete. As I read the the scenario of what happened, what she did, I'm thinking of avenues that she could put up as her defense, or defense attorneys could put up as a defense. Thank you. These interviewers got damning statements and they covered what I consider all of the avenues of escape I could think of. I think the best way she could have defended herself with everything already done at the scene was that she claimed it was accidental death and that she panicked and cut up and dismembered the body. The investigators obviously saw that defense and were patient and, took her statement and sewed up those excuses tight.

Marcy: 54:20

With the confession, the case seems like a slam dunk.

Mark: 54:24

Yeah, but they still covered everything both with physical evidence, with corroborative evidence. Unfortunately, there are many. Places in less professional departments where, you get a confession plus cursory evidence seen processing, it'd be considered complete. And you would have holes in this case then that a defense attorney might be able to exploit. But in this case, they covered their bases.

Marcy: 54:47

While we're talking about confessions, here we have another suspect who did something horrible, at least initially claiming that she blacked out or couldn't remember what was happening.

Mark: 54:56

Yeah, it's just like the others. Before she broke and decided to tell everything she had that I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember. just like the others, they know, obviously later you hear from her statement that she remembers everything. But she doesn't want to describe it because she doesn't want to have to explain it.

Marcy: 55:14

Why do you think she eventually talked?

Mark: 55:16

I personally, I think she's a deep well of need. I've seen in interviews where People I'm bringing in, they want to have a good relationship with me. And my call is that in this case, your business like the attention from the cops, she was willing to cooperate. Well, That attention lasted. The other thing is think about her experience here. It's, it's an amazing experience, which he did. Maybe she just wanted to talk to someone about it. One thing about this is that. Everybody, my experience, everybody minimizes, right? But she didn't, she just told it straight. And I think that was, she told it straight because she wanted to shock them. She wanted their full attention. She wanted to keep their attention and wanted to impress them.

Marcy: 56:04

You had mentioned something in your analysis of this case about statement analysis.

Mark: 56:12

Yeah, so you're looking at body language and how they say things. One of the famous things in statement analysis is they have a homicide. Suspect, how does that person refer to the subject. If we suspect the person's dead, is the subject referring to the person as being dead? Using past tense and so forth. So watch these interviews with an eye toward statement analysis which, especially what she was doing with her body while she's talking. The interviewers did a good job of asking open ended questions and Shabazzus, when she started to give detailed answers, she did things that indicate truthfulness. For example, as she was recounting the incident, she made hand gestures that were appropriate to the story she was telling. She said in motion, choking. She said in motion cutting and seemed very natural and consistent with a person who's telling the truth from memory.

Marcy: 57:05

It seems odd that she would be so forthcoming during the police interrogation and then turn around and behave like she did in court.

Mark: 57:12

Yeah, she isn't a cause and effect person. She didn't realize when she was giving it all up, what that meant long term. She only fully realized later the hole she dug for herself as she spent time in jail. And then she got angry and when she gets into court in public, she lashes out.

Marcy: 57:32

So speaking about court, you were surprised that the sexual assault count was upheld and that she was convicted basically of sexually assaulting a corpse.

Mark: 57:42

Yes, I was involved in a case, a murder that involved sexual assault where there was a conviction for the homicide but not the sex. But I was happy to see that it was rightly decided here. The motive of this murder was partially sex based and I think it's appropriate that we assume the victim would not have consented to sex at any point during or after his murder. Consent can be a, consent can be a slippery issue. And in general, I'd agree that a corpse cannot be sexually assaulted. That's why there are often other charges pertaining to misconduct with a body. The facts of this case are different than, say, the average case of necrophilia if that makes any sense.

Marcy: 58:23

Talk about how you think the defense attorney did in this case.

Mark: 58:27

I think he did well, considering what he had to work with. To be fair, that poor guy had to say something. The confession video was compelling enough, but you have a ton of physical evidence that matches, her detailed descriptions. That's hard to overcome.

Marcy: 58:41

But you think he could have done more? I don't know.

Mark: 58:43

Yeah, I think you should have gone harder at the accidental death assertion and explain that she business is weird. She's unstable. She didn't really mean to kill Shad during sex She really was trying to cover up an accident when she started cutting him up and, to explain the detailed confession, he could have said, she was telling the cops what she thought they wanted to hear. I was recently reading an article that talked about how female cannibalism has come up in several TV shows For example, there's a show called Yellow Jackets that has cannibalism. The defense could have used examples from the media and made this assertion that it's a it had an effect on the defendant's impressionable mind. Not that she would do it for that reason, just as she was reasonably trying to cover up what was actually an explainable accidental death.

Marcy: 59:33

And one thing we haven't talked about yet is bail or arrest reform in relation to this case. So in this is a crime that could have been prevented had she not been allowed out of jail based on the nature of her recent prior conviction.

Mark: 59:50

Yeah, there's a stage of drug addiction category of user who I used to refer to as a fiend. The fiend functions like an animal searching for food. Yeah. In this example, food is dope. They'll do whatever they need to do to get it. These people have burned through their friends and families as a source of money, so they'll do anything. A degrading sex act, a senselessly bold crime, a senselessly violent crime. This makes them particularly dangerous to citizens because, they can see you as standing between them and survival. This is where you get those videos of security guards outside of stores being run over by a driver who has run a cart of stolen stuff out of the store. Fiends steal things they know they can sell or barter for drugs or cash to buy drugs. And these people don't have a lot of imagination or a lot of time to get their drugs to plan their crimes. So they repeat their favorite crime over and over until they're caught and put behind bars. I learned the, this the hard way as a baby detective, I got a guy out of jail to work as an informant on a drug case. The guy was connected and I had a specific target. What I didn't know, what I didn't understand was this guy was a fiend. I get him out. He immediately took off, immediately started a crime spree. Patrol officers are seeing my guy on surveillance videos and are asking the question why the hell did he get out so fast? It's me. I got him out. It was on me. So I spent the next two weeks tracking that guy down so I could put him back in jail.

Marcy: 1:01:20

Okay, but how does this relate to bail reform?

Mark: 1:01:23

So a few years back, bail reform effort came along and lawmakers embraced it. For some the attraction was saving on jail funding. Others, stigmatize offenders pre trial. That's what was attractive to them. I wasn't against the effort on some low end, non violent offenders, but this has to exclude the fiends. Many of the bail reform efforts failed a year or two after they were enacted because of public outcry. The problems, in my opinion, were the fiends. In my jurisdiction, the effort which was made in the state law, was repealed within a year or two. And the problem here was the citizens and businesses were sometimes being re victimized by the same offenders, same day, after being released on low or no bail. Or maybe the police had issued a summons after catching them, And, they go right back into crime. In some more serious crimes, there were so many ankle monitor inmates running around and the contractors that were paid to track them, they couldn't there's no one to hunt those people down when they absconded. So, these repeat offenders eventually get picked up on an arrest warrant for violations of the conditions of release, but they can do a lot of damage in the interim. And this is what this basically what happened in this case, she would have been eventually. pick back up for cutting her ankle monitor off. But look what she did for bail reform to be successful. There has to be a mechanism to identify these kinds of offenders are just going to continue crime sprees and victimizations if they aren't in jail. We need to get all of these people the drug fiends off the street and keep them off the street I'm not against. Rehabilitation efforts, But some people just don't, it's not successful. And you have a lot of people victimized because of it.

Marcy: 1:03:06

So you're saying that based on what the police and courts knew about Shabizna's recent criminal convictions, she should never have been let out even with an ankle monitor.

Mark: 1:03:15

Yeah, exactly. To bring this back to

Marcy: 1:03:17

to bring this back to Shad Therian, he was 24. Shad was an artist. He deserved to live a long and happy life. His family misses him very much. Thank you for listening. Please rate and review Crime Raven on Apple Podcasts and tell your friends about us. Check out our website at crimeraven. com where you can find our merch and our email. Crime Raven is hosted by Mark Ryan and Marcy Ryan. It's written and directed by Mark Ryan and edited and produced by Marcy Ryan and it's a Three Little Birds LLC production.